Our team hasn't started raiding Gruul or Magtheridon yet, and there's already the stirrings of attunement for Serpentshire Cavern and The Eye.
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| It's at this point when you realize you're largely on the last step of... Part 2. From Wowhead's page on TBC Classic Attunements. |
If the first month of TBC Classic taught me anything, it's that I'm not going to rush my tail (literally, because Draenei) all over Outland to get myself ready to.... do it all over again in the next phase.
To be fair, the server Discord always has people looking ahead to the next Phase, but what seems to be attracting the most attention is the sheer number of mats required to build mitigation sets for the tanks on a 25-person raid team. I don't have a list that I can share right now, but let's just say it's a pretty hefty price tag.
But let's not be a Debbie Downer here, and put those discussions off until Phase 2 is actually announced.*
***
My questing buddy got her Bear to L70, attuned, and last night she was off to Karazhan. I assisted in getting her pre-raid mitigation set crafted by farming the Clefthoof leather needed for the set. A nice little side effect is that I received plenty of Roasted Clefthoof for Brig's raid usage, and given that my real life work has been less than kind to me lately, I got to take my frustration on the Clefthoof population in Nagrand.
Outside of that, however, my interest in doing much in TBC Classic has been pretty damn low. I'll go pug an instance or two, maybe farm a bit, or even do some quests, but unless my questing buddy is on I've placed Shadowmoon Valley and Netherstorm on a questing hiatus; she waited for me to do those together, and I'm not about to screw her over and go ahead and quest without her.
I suppose that it's at this time I should consider leveling an alt, but I've not been that interested in doing that very much either. Linna is sitting there in her crappy boosted gear, waiting patiently, and I even went to the trouble to create a seventyupgrades version of her, but all I've done is move her around the Old World. She's currently sitting in Light's Hope Chapel, which is pretty appropriate, but outside of some basic questing I've done little else.
It's not that I don't have things to do, such as working on reputations, leveling a craft such as Leatherworking, or maybe even venturing into a Heroic version of an instance, but nothing is appealing right now. A week ago, someone in guild asked if I was interested in running Heroics, and I told him not really. "From what I can see, they're just wipe fests, and why would I sign up for that?"
"True," he replied. "They are brutal."
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| Ah, Animal House. Don't you ever get old. This could cover Heroics, or the leveling process, or the isolation involved. Or all three. |
"Exactly. From what I can see, Karazhan is easier than the average Heroic."
"Don't you want the badges from the daily?"
"Not really. The Heroics aren't going anywhere, and in a couple of months the gear there will be obsolete anyway."
As if to prove this supposition correct, in a Mechanar run a few days later the Hunter happened to mention the special "Heroic" attack the first regular boss does: "Everybody gets a charge, and if you're too close to the wrong charge you can wipe the group."
"Oh great," I replied. "The Thaddius ability from Naxxramas come to a 5-person instance."
"The strategy I've seen has been to go to the stairs, and depending on your charge you run up or down the stairs," my questing buddy added.
"So in addition to all those damn bombs going off, you have to handle the charge routine." No wonder these were considered an alternative to end game raids, I thought. "This is totally different than the Heroics in Wrath, where they were an easily defined stepping stone to raiding."
To my mind, this pretty much confirms the "Retail" mindset pervading people's approach to TBC Classic: you have to do all the things to really be "winning" the game.
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| Couldn't resist. |
But that's the thing: there is no "winning" in the traditional sense. You're just caught up for a short while, and then the goalposts move farther away.
I'm reminded of George Carlin discussing golf back in the 80s: "Think of the brains it takes to play golf. Hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then… walking after it. And then hitting it again."** That pretty much defines the MMO playstyle: you get to a point where you're caught up, and then the next thing you know you're chasing after a new set of goals.
So I've been tempted to just... well, do some slumming. Like maybe sit on top of a giant mushroom and watch the LFG channel for a while. Or hang around near Halaa and watch the back and forth of the factional fighting.
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| "I'm just sitting here watching the world go round and round..." --John Lennon |
I've been asked occasionally if there's something I want to do in game, but I always turn it around into helping somebody else out instead. At least that gives me a purpose, to help somebody out, rather than actually think about my needs for a change.***
Because... Hell if I know what my needs are. The last time somebody asked, I told them that all I really wanted was for them to just be a friend. Nothing very concrete, and very much an existential response, I suppose, but after the events of the past 2 months**** that's all I need for now.
But I also think that so much of our interactions in TBC Classic have been so wrapped up in the Meta, raiding, and doing-all-the-things that a decent subset of players are now like a fish out of water when interacting with others in game. Trying to get past the superficial "Are you raiding Kara?" or "Wanna do a Heroic?" takes effort, and players have problems pushing past that superficiality. It's going beyond the generic discussion starters where people flounder.
Last week I said hello to a friend I'd not talked to in-game in a couple of weeks, and she was happy to chat. After a minute or two of pleasantries, she asked if I wanted to run an instance. "Sure," I replied, "as long as it's not a Heroic."
"Why not?"
"Not attuned yet. Still working through that."
"Oh."
And that was the end of that. I was more than a bit disappointed, but when people are caught up in the current Meta that's what happens, I suppose.
***
Independent of that conversation, I had another friend a week or two ago tell me that he was concerned that I was being 'self isolating' because I wasn't running Heroics and had no real interest in running them. In fact, I was telling him --half jokingly-- that I was trying to see if I could be the last raid main to get into a Heroic in guild when he posted his concern. He believed that by falling too far behind, I'd isolate myself from the rest again.
"Again?" I asked.
"The first time was when you leveled your Shaman," he replied.
"I wasn't the one who isolated myself. And I didn't level Brig for myself either."
"I know, but I'm just concerned."
I just kind of shrugged at that. I pug things, I pretty much always have, and if people only want to run the things that will only benefit them, they're the ones who are self-isolating. "I'll get there when I get there," I replied.
***
I guess I shouldn't have been too surprised by these conversations, but it did leave me more than a little sad that so much of how we interact in game is so tied to what we get out of something rather than doing it because of what others might need. If we're not getting something out of it, we're doing it wrong. There was one instance run, months before the pre-patch, that should have given me a glimpse of what TBC Classic would be like. Someone had asked me for help in getting an instance done, and I said that sure, I'd go. I joined the group, and then a few minutes later I was unceremoniously booted from said group because one of this person's guildies said they'd go. Since I was going "for fun", they didn't need me. And this was despite that I was asked for help and I willingly offered it. Because I wasn't directly getting something out of the run, I didn't have the higher priority over another person's guildies.
And really, that kind of describes TBC Classic in a nutshell: "How does it directly benefit me?" That isn't a recipe for a healthy in-game ecosystem.
The fix isn't difficult, you know.
Be a friend. Do something that doesn't benefit you, but others. Just be there for someone.
That's all.
*My guess is September or October, although it might come earlier if subscriptions for WoW don't pick up with the "Chains of Domination" 9.1 release. (And, having put my ear to the ground, it sounds like it is not doing so well.)
**From "Playin' with Your Head", 1986. Yes, I'm old enough that I have the original on LP. The entire quote has a bit of profanity, and isn't central to my comment, so I left it off. Still, I can truly appreciate his opinion of watching golf on television, as golf was always... ALWAYS... on the television when I was growing up.
***Why do I get the feeling that my love language is Acts of Service?
****It includes pre-patch, people.
Wow, Nagrand what a flashback. I spent so much time grinding those Clefthoof. I loved that place in fact I should go visit just for the scenery!
ReplyDeleteSo, so true but it's usually not that way. I'm not sure what the deal is, is it because people don't think of virtual friends as friends? Tota
I honestly don't know whether they think less of virtual friends compared to physical IRL friends. I don't think it's generational either, I think it's more, well, opportunistic. And if I'm not caught up it's more a matter of sympathy or pity than saying "Hey, sure, I'll run with you. No problems here."
DeleteIt's funny to me that I agree with your assessment that heroics are very much skippable... but at the same time love them myself just for the challenge. When the CC is co-ordinated just so, and everybody works together like a smooth machine... it's great.
ReplyDeleteBut before I got all my heroic keys I had similar conversations like you had with that one friend... asking me whether I wanted to come to dungeon X, me saying I'm not attuned for heroic, and then that awkward... "oh".
I've been thinking a lot about altruism/socialising vs. selfish play lately. Because I know I want to benefit too when I go to join a dungeon... but I'm so easy to please, "I guess I'll earn a few gold along the way" tends to be enough for me if I also want to be there because of the people involved. And I was excited to level my leatherworking to craft things for others, but the moment that stopped being a concern and it was mostly about levelling it for my own sake, my motivation dropped off a cliff. I really can't relate to the people who just pursue one piece of character power after the other seemingly without doing anything else. It feels very alienating at the moment.
It's funny to me that I agree with your assessment that heroics are very much skippable... but at the same time love them myself just for the challenge.
DeleteI certainly would love them for the challenge, but I think the well has been poisoned by the BiS/rep rush. Maybe after a while when people aren't running them so much I'll start wanting to run them, but I'm not there yet. BC's Heroics are so different than Wrath's because the focus on endgame is different. In Wrath, people ran Heroics as a stepping stone to getting geared for raids. They weren't that much more difficult than the regular runs --outside of the level change, of course-- and people dropped Wrath Naxx like a hot potato once Ulduar and ICC were released. In BC, these Heroics were considered on equal footing with the early raids (at least) and were designed as an alternative endgame. The difficulty level between N and H are pretty extreme in TBC Classic.
But you know, I don't think it's so much a matter of being easy to please but more that you value the friendship and/or companionship more than any direct benefit to yourself. And that's a good thing in my mind.
In my opinion, the difficult of Heroics has been slightly exaggerated. I never got to them the first time I played TBC but had people telling me they were super hard and tougher than raids, etc. Provided you have a reasonably well geared tank and a decent healer, most of them are fine. Throw in a couple of DPS with some crowd control (a Mage and a Hunter, or 2 Mages even) and they can become almost trivial. Admittedly it is easier as well when you're in a guild group and communicating with each other over Discord, but I have also had random PUGs where we got through just fine as long as people are able to follow instructions. Shattered Halls Heroic is probably the toughest I have done but that is purely down to the size of some of the big packs.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, we haven't had many if any runs that were wipe fests. And I am not some kind of elite gamer who is geared to the teeth either. Yes, you have to follow a kill order and watch your threat as some mobs will just one shot you if you pull threat. But if you can do that and follow basic instructions, it becomes much more straight-forward. Compare that to a raid encounter like Gruul or Magtheridon, even Nightbane where so much can go wrong. I have found the Heroics I have done to actually be a lot of fun. If you are holding back from doing them because you think it will be a gruelling wipe fest, maybe give it a go and you might enjoy them too. But it's totally your prerogative if you just prefer to do something else with your time.
I believe that you pretty much defined the difference in Heroics: the CC is absolutely critical in Heroics, whereas it's a nice to have but not required in a lot of the Normals. But that also highlights a big difference between Heroics and even 10-person Kara raids: the importance of Mages to the mix. In the 25-person raid mix, Mages aren't as important as Hunters, Shamans, or Warlocks (exception is Mage tank on Gruul), but it sounds like their CC is required for Heroics.
DeleteThat might also explain the wipe-fests, as I've not seen very many direct requests in LFG for Mages. Occasionally for Hunters, but never for Mages.
I think I may eventually get into some Heroics, but I've absolutely no interest in doing the chain runs for badges/drops for the Meta, which I frequently see both in guild and in LFG. I'm also quite aware that my utility in Heroics is more limited, as I have to spend most of my time making sure I'm directly behind the tank and keeping my totems up. Being more a DPS sidelight is taking some getting used to.
Hi Red;
ReplyDeleteHad a guildie shouting (caps) yesterday about being dropped from the group he was in. Apparently he was the tank, and looking for a cc he refused to take a hunter, as (in his words) Mages are the only 'Hard CC'.
I asked him what that meant, he asked me if I was dumb. Interesting way to back up your point, but eventually others got involved and pretty much told him that there's more than one CC class in the game.
Interestingly enough, after the ruckus calmed down, it was pointed out that he'd been tanking Kara, and the CC there certainly wasn't polymorphing. If traps/shackles were good enough for a raid, they were absolutely good enough for Heroics.
Also, running with the guild in normal Slave Pens yesterday, the group decides to do some Super Mario Brothers crap on the bridges, jumping down to a small landing area beside the wall in order to skip a bunch of groups. Of course, having never done this before, I miss the jump. I'm told to just drown in the water and the shadow priest will rez me. He gets too close to the water and falls in. So the druid uses their battle rez, then the priest rezzes me.
Shortly after, the tank avoids 1 group and a pat, to take on a 2nd group...one that has MC and Fears. You bet they both fired off their abilities, because hey, why use CC when it's a tight pull and there's mobs we're leaving up?
2 wipes later after more silly finagling, I had to ask. Hey guys, if we're not 70, and this stuff gives us xp, why are we skipping all these packs?
The answer, not surprisingly, was that 'done correctly, it's more efficient to run it this way'. My response was 'are we doing this multiple times?' No, but it's more efficient.
5 wipes from silly shenanigans to 'run more efficiently'. As Blairos pointed out, some CC and communication, you're running Heroics smoothly. Let alone normals.
The idea of efficiency in a game. A game that we'll play over and over. But we need to make it efficient.
Sad.
Bill
Bill, are you sure you don't want to resurrect your blog? You seem to be full of stories.
DeleteAnd yes, I have stories like that, where "avoiding trash" leads to a much longer run. Like the first time I ventured into Steamvault, where we did the parkour jumps and still pulled two packs, wiping on them, when the tank didn't understand that a Tremor Totem operates on a periodic timer.