What is Valuable and Who Decides it is?

Luke: Is the Dark Side stronger?

Yoda: No... Quicker, easier, more seductive.

--From The Empire Strikes Back

Okay, after being a Classic Andy for what's likely the millionth time since roughly July 2014, I began to have some second thoughts. 

What if I am not remembering things correctly? What if what I like about Classic WoW has an analogue in Retail? What if I'm letting my dislike of the state of the game over a decade ago color my opinions too much?

Well, the TL;DR is that I decided to do something about it:

This screencap is obviously not when she was
brand spanking new. You'd have thought I'd have
remembered to take an initial screenshot, but nope.

I believe this is called "putting my money where my mouth is".

For the record, Livona here was created on Wyrmrest Accord-US, an RP realm with a "High" population. In the era of shared (aka "dynamically merged") servers, this may not mean much. From wowrealmpopulation.com, Wyrmrest Accord has ~10.5k active characters...

Snapshot from wowrealmpopulation.com
as of May 11, 2025.

Although given the current state and capability of Retail WoW to create innumerable alts, this might represent only 500 individual accounts. Okay, I'm kidding, but you never know.

As you can see, Wyrmrest Accord is roughly 33% Alliance. So, not a 50/50 split, but decently sized enough that I ought to expect to see some bodies out and about. Look, I'm no dummy, and Wyrmrest Accord has been around as an active server since 2009, so it's likely that I shouldn't expect that many people in any starter zone. My previous foray into Retail with new toons confirmed that, but I decided I was going to try this for more than just a few minutes.

I figured I'd go to a zone that I was intimately familiar with, and one that hadn't changed since Cataclysm: Elwynn Forest.

It still feels weird entering into Goldshire and seeing
a Flight Point there. I mean, it's a ~3 minute run up
to Stormwind, so you're not saving that much time.

Now, I knew that the Cataclysm changes meant things were different in Elwynn as compared to the OG Vanilla version, but I couldn't remember just how jarring things were. Therefore I decided to approach this as if I were brand new to the game and didn't go to Exile's Reach (or did it once and wanted to start over with the "original" experience). What would make sense? What wouldn't? How would I feel as I played the game?

I discovered very early on that I wasn't going to be able to remain objective, because I did have opinions, and those opinions came to the forefront from practically the 3rd or 4th quest:

You're kidding me, right? Have you seen how full my
health bar is and how little effort it took to revive you?

I mean, look at the comment by the NPC that I healed on the battlefield.* I had hardly even done anything in the game and I was being called a hero. For a person who prefers IRL to fly under the radar, this is somewhat disconcerting; I kept expecting someone to pop out from behind the tree in the screencap and say "HA!! FOOLED YOU!!"

But beyond that, what stood out to me the most about the very beginning in Northshire Abbey was that the quest text there implied you knew things about the pre-Cataclysm era of World of Warcraft**. A new player won't know that, and if you relied too much on what might have been there originally in-game, you'd only confuse a new player further. 

Before you point out that a new player might have been expecting to go straight away and play The War Within, I'm not going there. I don't think that's likely to be the case. A new player to WoW probably has the vague idea that the game is OLD now and they will likely have to start off somewhere else first before they can get to the current expansion. They're called expansions for a reason, and they don't replace the old game, only add to it. 

I did notice that the number of quests in Northshire Abbey were cut by quite a bit, despite all the trainers and other original NPCs still present in the game. Yes, there aren't a lot of quests around the Abbey to begin with, but the speed of completion was still record breaking for me. It usually takes me about 20-30 minutes to be off to Goldshire in Classic Era, but even with me loitering around a bit I was out of there in about 15 minutes. If I'd have pushed it, I could have been done with Northshire Abbey in about 6-7 minutes, and most of THAT would have been spent running back and forth from the nearby vineyard.

So, I was off to Goldshire, and since I was on the way, I thought it a good idea to go visit Stormwind's bank to drop off some of the initial gear that I already had replaced. In Vanilla Classic, if you were lucky you might have gotten a couple of pieces replaced by quest rewards, but in Retail everything was replaced by the time I reached The Lion's Pride Inn. 

I'm not sure what I expected to find in Stormwind, but looking like Classic Era servers right in the middle of TBC Classic wasn't it:

I saw the same toon by the same NPC over the course of
a couple of hours. No, I wasn't playing straight over those
few hours; I just did a half an hour here and there over the
course of the entire day. I had things to do, after all.

I eventually found a few toons around:

Note the Naxxramas Tier set on that Caster beyond
the Darkmoon Faire Mage on the right. I think it's the
Discount Naxx reskin from Wrath of the Lich King,
But I wasn't paying too close attention at the time.

But they never lasted long. And to be fair, they were the only people I actually saw in the game up to that point. I didn't see a soul in Northshire Abbey or Elwynn Forest at first, even though I spread my game time over several hours and a couple of days.

(I will come back to that later.)

After leaving Stormwind...

I see they finally repaired the damage caused
by Deathwing to the entrance. I think it was still in
a state of disrepair in Mists in 2014.

...I resumed questing in Elwynn Forest.

Even though I was L6-7, the "Report to Westfall" quest was already available if I wanted it --I didn't-- so I continued to accumulate the "traditional" Elwynn quests: the Maclure and Stonefield farms, and the nearby Fargodeep Mine. Instead of the giant pig named Princess being halfway across the zone as in Classic WoW, Princess is right in the field beside you as you're talking to the quest giver. Also, unlike Classic WoW, she's not accompanied by two extra members of her "entourage", which means the fight is actually quite simple, despite her size:

Somebody has been feeding that pig Miracle Gro,
because she's a lot bigger now than in Classic WoW.

What got me was that the turn-in text block doesn't look like it had been changed from Vanilla WoW:

"Ma'am, she's right behind me. Can't miss her."

Despite that, the quests I ran into were largely the same as their Vanilla counterpart. Thankfully, you didn't need any knowledge of Vanilla WoW to understand the context, so that worked. But there was one big difference between the Vanilla WoW and Retail WoW versions of the zone:

"What on earth are you doing out here?"

In Vanilla WoW, the mini-boss Goldtooth is at the back of the Fargodeep Mine, which makes it a challenge to get to. Before I hear any complaints about how easy Vanilla WoW really is from a complexity standpoint, I have to point out that typically the Fargodeep Mine is where a toon will likely die for the first time.*** Respawns and the narrow passages make any mine dangerous, but to get to Goldtooth you have to go all the way to the back. Oh, and you likely have to fight a few adds when you pull Goldtooth. Here, being outside the mine and off without any nearby adds, he's pretty much a sitting duck. Even if Goldtooth were at the back of the mine, I doubt he would have posed much of a challenge. Hell, my health bar didn't go beyond the halfway mark until I decided to test how much of a wrecking ball you are with WoW's greatest enemies, Murlocs.

I had to actually go back the other night
to get this screencap, because I was kind of busy
when I last went through here.

Like the jingle for DoubleMint gum, murlocs like to double (or triple) the fun by having multiples attack you. In Vanilla WoW, if the mines don't kill you in Elwynn, the murlocs likely will.**** The Retail WoW version of the Elwynn Forest murlocs did not disappoint me, as I fought packs of 2 or 3 at once. While I didn't die at all, that pack of 3 that jumped me before I could eat and regain health very nearly did me in. If I were more cautious, and if I hadn't had the experience of invincibility up to that point in Retail WoW, I likely wouldn't have pulled that many murlocs.

So there I stood, at L9, after about 90 minutes of actual playing the game, although I might be generous on the 90 minute mark as I was screwing around a bit, making trips to Stormwind to dump stuff into the bank, taking screenshots, and hunting for other people in the area.

I did finally find a few people in Goldshire:

"Love me two times girl
One for tomorrow, one just for today
Love me two times
I'm goin' away...."

I caught these on screencap just before they went "WHOOSH!" up and out of sight.

"Oh, right," I mumbled. "Flying is allowed everywhere."

That being said, I didn't see a single low level toon in Elwynn Forest at all. 

***

So... What did I think?

Let me describe my experience leveling 8 toons at once in Anniversary Classic: when you do the same quest 6 or more times, you find it hard to sit there and read the quest text again. Really, after about the 3rd time doing the same quest I just kind of click through to the end, because unless I want a specific screencap or something, I know what's happening. There have been weeks where I've been doing the same quests in the same zone on ALL of the toons, and it blurs together after a while.

Now, switching to Retail WoW and intentionally wanting to read the quest text to see what differences there are between Retail and Vanilla did not help me. In fact, I felt a stronger pull to simply skip reading the quest text than if I'd been playing Vanilla. Why, you may ask?

This:

I was going to crop it, but you know, it works fine as-is.

Everything I need to know is right on the map, and if I don't care to pull that up on-screen most of the relevant information is up on both the mini-map and the quest tracker on the right. I've never used the Questie addon, so I can't tell you if it has the same information, but this kinda-sorta pushes you into going faster than you may want to. Providing the data to a player without any expectation is one thing, but there's an implicit expectation here that the player will utilize the info to progress as quickly as possible. 

The removal and/or streamlining of quests in Northshire and Elwynn wasn't designed to explicitly unclutter the old zones, it was to provide the player with an overall improved experience. Taking Goldtooth out of the cave means you don't have to risk anything to go in there and eradicate him. You also don't need another body to go in there with you in case you get jumped by 2 or 3 more kobolds. The zone becomes more solo-friendly and faster to progress through as a result. 

By comparison, if you go to Elwynn on the Anniversary servers or Classic Era servers, you'll always find people asking to group up for Hogger. In Retail there's no need, as everything is soloable. Group content is segregated in a separate area, and while you can manually group up the expectation is that you can use the automated processes to handle the group creation. 

And let's talk about the elephant in the room: Retail WoW is old. I mean, really old; like "Morrowind was the current Elder Scrolls game in 2004" old. And the Wyrmrest Accord server, having opened about 16 years ago, means likely 95% or more of the server population is at or near max level. Still, I wasn't expecting there to be nobody in Elwynn Forest. Blizzard could have simply turned off access to the zones entirely and nobody would have noticed. If this were Classic Era --and the lack of population was the reality for Classic Era a few months into TBC Classic-- I'm sure there was an internal drumbeat within Blizzard to simply turn those Classic Era servers off. Nobody was playing, so why keep them turned on?

The thing is, Retail's design provides an outlet for collectors and completionists to go back and poke around and do all the things.

Oh, and allow the rare newbie to come along and try their hand at the game.

I used to rail about how Blizzard, by reworking the Old World for Cataclysm, inadvertently cut off their own pipeline of new players into the game. Instead of a natural progression from Vanilla -> TBC -> Wrath -> Cataclysm, what ended up happening was Cataclysm Vanilla -> Old TBC -> Old Wrath -> Cataclysm. The timeline got screwed up, and the game no longer made internal sense unless you had played the game prior to 2010. Now, I'm not so sure that's the case. 

From what I've played and observed, Retail WoW is relying less on the world and a cohesive story to bring in and keep players and relying more on what has been WoW's traditional strength: its gameplay.

Whatever you may think of the storytelling in Retail WoW, gameplay can make up for a host of sins. WoW's gameplay is far smoother in Retail than in Vanilla; the drops come more quickly, you know what to do without having to engage your brain and figure it out, the feedback loop of quest acquisition and completion is finely tuned, and the game world is designed to progress you through it faster. Hell, as a Rogue I discovered that stealth meant almost no penalty to my traveling speed at all. I was zipping through the Fargodeep Mine --because OF COURSE that's what I'd do-- as if I was running through the thing. I know how long it would take a Vanilla Rogue to make it through (assuming that a Kobold didn't see through my stealth), and here in Retail I was cruising along as if they weren't even there. 

You could say the game doesn't waste your time, because the game doesn't value the time spent in the old content. And if Blizzard doesn't and the existing player base doesn't, why shouldn't you? 

Or maybe, to turn it around, why should you value the old content? Take away the transmog and the achievements, and what do you have? Without external rewards, why go?

Classic WoW has that "why go" question already answered: people make their own fun. The players came up with Hardcore WoW Classic and made it popular before Blizzard jumped on the bandwagon and created official hardcore servers. Classic Fresh became a player driven thing on a Classic Era RP-PvP server before the announcement of the 20th Anniversary servers. I still recall the New Year's Eve 2023 gathering on the Season of Discovery RP server in Stormwind, with people basically having a good time while the countdown to the 2024 was underway.

The thing is, I never hear about people doing goofy things or making their own challenges for old content in Retail WoW. That doesn't mean it's not there, but outside of a few things --such as that Pandaren who makes it to the level cap by picking flowers in the Pandaren starting zone-- all you hear about in Retail WoW is about what's going on in the current expansion. What is keeping Retail WoW players from following in their Classic brethren's footsteps? Nothing, really. 

This loops back to the title of this post. While I progressed through Retail's Elwynn Forest, I kept wondering why the Retail community doesn't consider this content to be valuable. Is it purely conditioning, or is it a "follow the leader" mentality that keeps people from doing things if there isn't a reward attached? Without achievements or transmog, is there no interest?

I'm uncertain you can say this about other older MMOs. I've been on SWTOR and LOTRO --the old LOTRO servers, not the new ones-- and judging by the activity in both MMOs, the intro zones remain very active with new toons. If you told LOTRO players that Ered Luin or The Shire isn't valuable to LOTRO any more, I'm pretty sure there'd be a riot.***** But in Retail WoW, there'd likely be a lot of agreement with the sentiment that Elwynn Forest is no longer valuable to the game.

I don't know the answer to make old content more valuable beyond the carrot approach that Blizzard already has tried. It could be that all of the people who see the old content as intrinsically valuable have migrated off of Retail WoW and onto Classic WoW, and those remaining in Retail don't see the value in old content beyond the metagame rewards that Blizzard offers. If anybody has ideas, I'm all for it, because there's all this content that is basically unused, and it certainly seems like the people most likely to utilize it don't even play this version of the game any more.

***

Oh, and one more thing. I discovered that collecting herbs gives you more XP than fighting enemies at level:

Now I know why that Pandaren thought leveling via gathering herbs was a good idea.

*Because the Priest wasn't doing much of anything, mind you, and sent me in his stead.

**For example, Milly Osworth's initial quest text for Extinguishing Hope starts with "Times like these make me long for when the Defias were still around. The cataclysm has opened a pathway from the Burning Steppes and now Blackrock orcs pour into Northshire Valley!" (From Wowhead, because I forgot to take a screencap.) You would have had to have known about the Defias, or at least be familiar with them to truly understand Milly's comment, and if you were paying attention to the quest text you'd likely have pulled up the map to try to figure out what Milly was talking about. But of course a new player will have Burning Steppes as a big ol' blank space once you found it because you haven't revealed the map yet. The quest text could have easily been tweaked to make it more understandable to a completely new player, removing some specifics that old players knew and just emphasizing the criticality.

***I've played Hardcore WoW Classic. I KNOW.

****And if you survive that, then the Defias Pillagers in Westfall are waiting for you.

*****Assuming people didn't think you were one of several well-known shit-stirrers on the Gladden-US server and dogpile on you for causing trouble.